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Date:	12/8/99 7:05:17 AM Pacific Standard Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest    Wednesday, December 8 1999    Volume 1999 : Number 1461<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
RE: One day, one day....<BR>
RE: OT/Flamebait: Starship Troopers revisited<BR>
Re: Changing Stereotypes<BR>
Re: OT Flamebait: realism of war movies<BR>
X-Mailer: F9 webmail<BR>
Re: Vrooms in outer space<BR>
Re: Changing Stereotypes<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1457<BR>
Re: OT Flamebait: realism of war movies<BR>
Re: OT/Flamebait: Starship Troopers revisited<BR>
Re: Question<BR>
Re: training soldiers to kill (Striker)<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1459<BR>
electronic warfare<BR>
Re: Mass communication, the nobility and epistemology (LONG)<BR>
Re: Changing Stereotypes<BR>
Re: Deadfall Ordnance and Falling Rocks<BR>
Re: Amazon.com (was Re: GT Nobles)<BR>
Fort Livingroom!!<BR>
Re: Are Imperial Marines "Jarheads"? (was: Re: OT/Flamebait: Starship  Troopers revisited)<BR>
Re:  Changing Stereotypes<BR>
Re: GT Nobles<BR>
Re: OT/Flamebait: Starship Troopers revisited<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 17:59:11 -0800<BR>
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com><BR>
Subject: RE: One day, one day....<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Mick Bailey<BR>
> Sent: Tuesday, 7 December 1999 5:07 AM<BR>
> To: Traveller<BR>
> Subject: One day, one day....<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> >Chortle, chuckle.  No, he said Footy season.  Anyone playing<BR>
> Freo is in the<BR>
> >midst of  Duck Season.<BR>
><BR>
> It'd be funnier if it weren't true (sob).....but at least we did<BR>
> better than<BR>
> that money-sink of a club, Collingwood!!!!<BR>
> To make things worse, good old Chelsea Fc are in a spot of bother...I can<BR>
> pick 'em...<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> ObTrav:  er.....I dunno, maybe I'll knock up a short piece about Aussie<BR>
> Rules as a spectator sport ion the Solomani Confederation...<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> Mick Bailey<BR>
><BR>
Actually the best game is when the West Coast Eagles played the Ithklur<BR>
Wanderers. The Eagles won the game by a point but the Ithklur had more<BR>
players still alive at full time.<BR>
Antony<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 17:58:57 -0800<BR>
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com><BR>
Subject: RE: OT/Flamebait: Starship Troopers revisited<BR>
<BR>
So far all the discussion has been about the Troopers, well given that was<BR>
what the film was about what a surprise.<BR>
<BR>
But whoever commanded the fleet, both at the first battle of Klendathu and<BR>
at the later one where the Roger Young gets it, should have been shot if<BR>
he/she survived the battle.<BR>
<BR>
Ships so close together that you could virtually walk across them, and this<BR>
after the effects of bug plasma were known from the disaster of the first<BR>
battle.<BR>
<BR>
The ships themselves looked good, did anyone notice a resemblance between<BR>
them and the ships in Alien Resurrection?<BR>
<BR>
Antony<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 02:25:06 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Changing Stereotypes<BR>
<BR>
I'm not sure that pacbell.net actually sent this, so<BR>
I'm sending it again via yahoo.com<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
******************************************************<BR>
> From: Cynthia Higginbotham <cyhiggin@pipeline.com><BR>
<BR>
> It won't take real space travel, just a really good <BR>
> movie to  change public perception.  Face it, <BR>
> spaceships didn't bank in space or go "whoosh" until<BR>
<BR>
> AFTER "Star Wars". <BR>
<BR>
That's not true.  Watch the opening credits of the<BR>
original Star Trek tv show after the first season. <BR>
The Enterprise zips by and makes a "whoosh".  Gene<BR>
Roddenberry explained in The Making of Star Trek that<BR>
they didn't have a whoosh in the first season because<BR>
in space there wouldn't be any sound, but the<BR>
audiences were expecting that when something flew by<BR>
quickly it would make a sound, so it was jarring not<BR>
to have it, so they put it into the second and third<BR>
seasons.  <BR>
<BR>
Battlestar Galactica fighters banked and rolled as if<BR>
they were in atmosphere.  Battlestar Galactica is<BR>
about contemporaneous with Star Wars; I'm not sure<BR>
which came first.  <BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Thousands of Stores.  Millions of Products.  All in one place.<BR>
Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 04:34:12 -0600<BR>
From: tim@premier.net<BR>
Subject: Re: OT Flamebait: realism of war movies<BR>
<BR>
. <BR>
> <BR>
> The proportion rose due to training methods from 10%<BR>
> to 95% from WWII to Vietnam, and Grossman's thinking<BR>
> is that this is the true cause of PTSD: not what has<BR>
> been done to you, but what you have done.<BR>
> <BR>
Another book worth reading on this subject is John Keegan's<BR>
Faces of Battle.  It covers not the tacttics of war, but what it might <BR>
and should have been like in three battles: Argincourtt, Waterloo, <BR>
and the Somme. (Bonus points for guess why these three).  He <BR>
also gives a good historyogrphy(sp?) of Military History.  As well as <BR>
a look at the future of the Battlefields.  His main thesis is to find <BR>
out why men fight on a battlefield, instead of breaking. An Excellent<BR>
writer well worth reading most of what he does.  Was/is head of <BR>
Military history/Science at Sandhurst I think.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Tim Reynolds<BR>
tim@premier.net <BR>
225-334-5063<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
Getting an education was a bit like a communicable <BR>
sexual disease.  It made you unsuitable for <BR>
a lot of jobs and then you had the urge to pass it on.<BR>
<BR>
Terry Pratchett <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed,December 08 1999 : 10 37 54<BR>
From: isteve@outhere.f9.co.uk<BR>
Subject: X-Mailer: F9 webmail<BR>
<BR>
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.<BR>
- ------=_Nextpart_=f4b5388976391d96bc76a51cfe325c4c<BR>
Content-type: text/plain<BR>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit<BR>
<BR>
>KA Schuant wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>How does the Imperium treat its burned out soldiers? Its retired soldiers? >Once full-time service appeared, nations had to provide pensions etc, since a >group of disgruntled ex-servicemen who only know how to fight can be a >problem....<BR>
<BR>
It seems they receive a Gun, a Blade, perhaps a Mid Psg and a lump sum of Imperial Credits and go on to become Player Characters...<BR>
<BR>
iSteve<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ------=_Nextpart_=f4b5388976391d96bc76a51cfe325c4c<BR>
Content-type: application/octet-stream; name=""<BR>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: BASE64<BR>
<BR>
- ------=_Nextpart_=f4b5388976391d96bc76a51cfe325c4c--<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 05:39:12 -0500<BR>
From: "Josh W. Spencer" <macmanjws@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Vrooms in outer space<BR>
<BR>
cos 90 wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> This is in the same line as hearing the General Lee (the car on the Dukes<BR>
> of Hazzard) squeal its tires on dirt roads -- it's an acoustic cue for the<BR>
> audience. (Probably so was Steve McQueen upshifting the gears on his car<BR>
> in the chase scene in Bullitt -- 16 times.)<BR>
<BR>
That's funny, I thought the acoustic cue was Bo and/or Luke yelling:<BR>
YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE...HAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Josh<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 06:20:05 -0500<BR>
From: "DaveShayne" <daveshayne@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Changing Stereotypes<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@pacbell.net><BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
>Battlestar Galactica fighters banked and rolled as if they were in<BR>
>atmosphere.  Battlestar Galactica is about contemporaneous with Star<BR>
>Wars; I'm not sure which came first.<BR>
<BR>
Star Wars.<BR>
<BR>
David Shayne<BR>
<BR>
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++<BR>
Old version - Build a better mousetrap and<BR>
the world will beat a path to your door.<BR>
New version - Build a better mousetrap and<BR>
some @$*% will build a better mouse.<BR>
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 03:25:47<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1457<BR>
<BR>
At 08:57 PM 12/7/1999 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Not true. There is a distinct "whoosh" sound as the Enterprise<BR>
>zips by the screen in the opening credits of the original Star<BR>
>Trek series.<BR>
<BR>
The ship's phasers also made a noise.  Oddly, it was a completely different<BR>
noise than the one heard on the bridge when the phasers were fired.<BR>
<BR>
Outside the ship, it was along metallic whistle.  Inside, it was a single<BR>
short spitting noise.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 03:29:31<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: OT Flamebait: realism of war movies<BR>
<BR>
At 12:16 AM 12/8/1999 +0000, you wrote:<BR>
> "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com> writes:<BR>
><BR>
>>Douglas E. Berry  gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
>>Yfirmaur, Konunglegur Gramm Floti<BR>
>>Srstakur Vitsmunir jnusta<BR>
>>Sameina Her: Rm, Sver Verld Sambandsmyndun<BR>
>>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html<BR>
><BR>
>On Eudora on a Mac, Yfirmaur has an Apple Logo before the 'ur' and <BR>
>Sver has one after the 'Sver'...! Is this official Swordworldese?<BR>
<BR>
Yes, the Sword Worlds were settled by Icelandic Apple Employess fleeing the<BR>
Nth OS War.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 03:34:46<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: OT/Flamebait: Starship Troopers revisited<BR>
<BR>
At 09:28 PM 12/7/1999 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Leave it to the marines, whose a***s ride in OUR equipment! And of<BR>
>course, as a fellow ex-Sailor, I too know what NAVY stands for:<BR>
><BR>
>Never<BR>
>Again<BR>
>Volunteer<BR>
>Yourself!<BR>
<BR>
Uncle Sam Ain't Released Me Yet.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 22:45:55 +1000<BR>
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Question<BR>
<BR>
> From: Loren Wiseman <BR>
> The question has come up in house WRT GT Nobles: What does the fanbase<BR>
want<BR>
> to see. One suggestion is to do a collection of PCs (a la GURPS Wizards<BR>
or<BR>
> GURPS Warriors), but I find this unsatisfactory (although any such book<BR>
> will need to give the most important Imperial nobles as PCs). How much<BR>
> should e devoted to life at the Imperial court? What burning questions<BR>
> (about nobles) need to be addressed? How many angels can dance on a<BR>
> pinhead, and why does he put up with it at all?<BR>
<BR>
I would like to see _some_ detailed characters.   In particular, I would<BR>
like to see some kind of factionalism within the nobility, with details of<BR>
faction heads and agents of theirs who can interact with Player Characters<BR>
as patrons.  For example, in the Spinward Marches, there could be rivalry<BR>
between Norris, and a faction around the Santanocheev family, or perhaps<BR>
the politics of the Ling Standard/Sternmetall Horizons rivalry could be<BR>
explored.  (The latter might be preferable, since it could be extended into<BR>
the Solomani Rim when that book comes out.)  Oh, and those pesky Tukera<BR>
people - total laser-meat.<BR>
<BR>
It might actually be more useful to have details of life at subordinate<BR>
courts, rather than the Imperial one.  There wouldn't necessarily be all<BR>
that much difference, but it's rather more likely that Player Characters<BR>
would get involved with the Archducal court at Mora, or the equivalent in<BR>
the Solomani Rim (Dingir?) than the Imperial one at Capital.<BR>
<BR>
Questions about Nobles?  How rich are they, really?  How do you meet them,<BR>
marry them, or become one of them?  After you do, who is going to try to<BR>
cut your throat, and why?<BR>
<BR>
Oh, and why was that dimwit son of Baron hault-Oberlindes always needing to<BR>
be rescued?<BR>
<BR>
More seriously - property and families are always good things for PCs to<BR>
have - it means they've got something to lose, and they're a bit less<BR>
likely to disappear "off the map" - a problem that I often saw in the<BR>
Classic Traveller days, before "civilisation" started shrinking, and which<BR>
could be an issue in the GT setting too.<BR>
<BR>
It's definitely 42 angels who can dance on a pinhead, and the pinhead<BR>
hasn't much choice about it - have you ever tried getting rid of an<BR>
infestation of angels?  (Insert plug for In Nomine here if you insist.... <BR>
I've never played it.)<BR>
<BR>
Anyway, if it gives me lots of good excuses for PCs to shoot things, it's<BR>
fine.  <BR>
<BR>
Alan Bradley<BR>
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 06:15:21 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: training soldiers to kill (Striker)<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@pacbell.net><BR>
>Subject: training soldiers to kill (was OT Flamebait: realism of war movies)<BR>
...<BR>
>relevant to anyone involved in campaigns with infantry action.  Striker<BR>
>and Mercenary, like most wargames, don't reflect the "something innate<BR>
>in man to make him reluctant to kill" to which Kyle and others have<BR>
>referred.  <BR>
<BR>
  Striker (I) did, OTOH, have enchanting rules on how difficult it was<BR>
to get your troops to do _anything_ (vaguely like their later "coolness<BR>
under fire rules" for various RPG's?). This was pretty challenging (aka<BR>
aggravating) for wargamers new to serious (even if SF) miniatures rules.<BR>
<BR>
        Steven Hudson<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 07:30:24 -0700<BR>
From: cos 90 <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1459<BR>
<BR>
>Top Suggestion: Combine GT: Nobles and GT: Diplomacy/Espionage into a<BR>
>single, larger volume (144+ pages). Call it "GT: Intrigue" or some such:<BR>
>all the high-touch (and sometimes high-tech) means of manipulating friends<BR>
>and enemies alike to do your bidding, and obtaining the information it<BR>
>takes to do so.<BR>
<BR>
Now, *that* I idea, I like. Especially since I run an espionage-based<BR>
campaign...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
     Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada <BR>
cos90@powersurfr.com  http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn<BR>
        "There is no longer any normal to be"<BR>
                                 -- Gary Numan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 08:39:19 CST<BR>
From: "Rick Stump" <rick_stump@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: electronic warfare<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 15:02:48 +1300<BR>
>From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
>Subject: Re: Starship troopers and electronic warfare<BR>
><BR>
>On 7 Dec 99, at 16:29, Rick Stump wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> > Hey, now, to us electronic warfare types, sigs are far better alive than<BR>
> > dead ('keep talkin', bubba, I just locked your TOC [tactical operations<BR>
> > center]. BWA-HA-HA-HAAAAAAA!'). My personal favorite trick when I <BR>
>couldn't<BR>
> > nail their exact location was to have artillery fire a smoke round near<BR>
> > where I knew a unit was hiding and then waiting for a report(them: "Sir,<BR>
> > reporting enemy smoke round 500 meters to my south" Me: "adjust 5 north,<BR>
> > he, time on target, fire for effect"). Bummer was, the radioman usually<BR>
> > bought it, too. So, if they're talking leave them alone - one yap-happy<BR>
> > radioman is worth 20 spies any day.<BR>
><BR>
>What the hell army were you shooting at? We'd never have bothered using<BR>
>a radio for that. If your superior HQ is far enough away that you need<BR>
>a radio to talk to them they're no use to you unless they've got a way<BR>
>of getting rid of whoever dropped the smoke on you. Some people have<BR>
>too much technology, that's their problem.<BR>
<BR>
I agree. Scouts use radios too much, company commanders use radios too much, <BR>
and forward observers might as well just call me on a phone and *tell* me <BR>
where they are. 'Course, I *liked* it that way.<BR>
In the Persian Gulf I was briefing the 6th Light Armor (French) and asked <BR>
how long they thought they could speak on the radio before an enemy could <BR>
fix their position. The concensus was 15 seconds. When I told them that in <BR>
15 seconds the rounds would already be in the air, they thought I was <BR>
kidding. During the war the tactical elements were pretty quiet, but their <BR>
commanders and support were often on for 1+ minute at a time. And most <BR>
armies aren't any better. Commanders get 'addicted' to information very <BR>
quickly, especially in high-stress situations like combat. Generals 'need' <BR>
to know what is happening in that critical battalion, company commanders <BR>
'must have' artillery support right now, etc. If you leave them alone for a <BR>
time, they do what they are trained to do - trust the equipment.<BR>
Then you kill them.<BR>
ObTrav: Imperial Intelligence probably has a whole lotta' electronic warfare <BR>
stuff, ranging from deep space listening arrays to detect old radio signals <BR>
from solar systems 3-4 light years away to 'tramp far traders' that actually <BR>
have tons of electronics in their bay and an extendable antenna in their air <BR>
raft berth<BR>
<BR>
______________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 07:46:47 -0700<BR>
From: cos 90 <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Mass communication, the nobility and epistemology (LONG)<BR>
<BR>
At 04:59 AM 1999 12 08 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>Traveller-digest    Wednesday, December 8 1999    Volume 1999 : Number 1460<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
>All rights reserved.<BR>
><BR>
>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
><BR>
>Before I begin, I'd like to dedicate this post to Glenn "cos 90" St-Germain,<BR>
>as I keep neglecting to send him email in our chain of off-list<BR>
>correspondence. My apologies Glenn.<BR>
<BR>
Oh, sure, blame the post on *me*... :)<BR>
Seriously, all is forgiven... and I'll see if it's not too late to<BR>
divert the near-c rock heading your way. The one launched by female<BR>
Aslan in comfortable shoes...<BR>
<BR>
>Recently, I have been introduced to (and I have devoured) Neil Postman's<BR>
>excellent "Amusing Ourselves to Death", which is an excellent book that<BR>
>deals with the effect of television on society.<BR>
<BR>
Postman... I'm familiar with his work. A modern-day Luddite and <BR>
technophobe. In one of his recent works (I don't remember which), he<BR>
claimed that the rate of technological change was disorienting to<BR>
people. (Sounds like he ripped off the idea from Alvin Toffler, but it<BR>
fits in with his general technology-is-evil views.) My response to that<BR>
was, if he can't keep up with the pace of technological change, he should<BR>
step aside and get out of the way of those of us who can. <BR>
<BR>
>continue with the law theme, print redefines law yet again: With the ability<BR>
>to disseminate cases and decisions across a wide area, there's a strong<BR>
>shift toward precedent in law (Glenn: is precedent the right concept, or am<BR>
>I missing the mark here?)<BR>
<BR>
Nope, you're right on track.<BR>
<BR>
>saying that television has redefined politics, education, religion, music,<BR>
<BR>
"No wonder your president is an actor. He has to look good on television!"<BR>
			-- Emmett "Doc" Brown, "Back to the Future"<BR>
(in 1955, commenting on Ronald Reagan being president in 1985.)<BR>
<BR>
>course the economic counter-argument is extremely compelling! Maybe wargames<BR>
>were victims of this epistemological shift, who knows. Actually, now that I<BR>
>think about it, the rise of collectable trading card games and story and<BR>
>picture-heavy RPGs makes a hell of a lot of sense.<BR>
<BR>
Don't overestimate the collectible trading card game market. Back when<BR>
Magic: The Gathering was at its peak, one CCG fan insisted that CCGs would<BR>
displace RPGs the way RPGs displaced wargames. Hasn't happened. Won't happen.<BR>
<BR>
>What does public discourse in the Traveller universe look like? What is the<BR>
>dominant medium? What changes might appear as a result? Is this general<BR>
>decline in the political arena one of the reasons for the fall of the Second<BR>
>Imperium, and for the rise of the nobility in the Third Imperium?<BR>
<BR>
The speed of communication will have an effect, no matter what the dominant<BR>
medium is. I would suspect that there will be variations in the dominant<BR>
media from place to place. Some high-tech cultures will be very much <BR>
oriented to television, while other high-tech cultures will eschew TV<BR>
entirely, getting their information from their version of the Internet.<BR>
<BR>
(Speaking of which, since I got my cable modem 3 years ago, I tend to watch<BR>
less TV...)<BR>
<BR>
With 11,000 worlds in the Imperium, you'll find anything and everything if<BR>
you look long enough...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
     Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada <BR>
cos90@powersurfr.com  http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn<BR>
        "There is no longer any normal to be"<BR>
                                 -- Gary Numan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 07:54:26 -0700<BR>
From: cos 90 <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Changing Stereotypes<BR>
<BR>
>> It won't take real space travel, just a really good movie to <BR>
>> change public perception.  Face it, spaceships didn't bank in<BR>
>> space or go "whoosh" until AFTER "Star Wars". (BTW, in the Star<BR>
><BR>
>That's not true.  Watch the opening credits of the original Star Trek tv<BR>
>show after the first season.  The Enterprise zips by and makes a<BR>
>"whoosh".  Gene Roddenberry explained in The Making of Star Trek that<BR>
>they didn't have a whoosh in the first season because in space there<BR>
>wouldn't be any sound, but the audiences were expecting that when<BR>
>something flew by quickly it would make a sound, so it was jarring not<BR>
>to have it, so they put it into the second and third seasons.  <BR>
<BR>
You're almost right. They didn't have the whoosh in the pilot episode,<BR>
"Where No Man Has Gone Before", and it was thought that it missed<BR>
something -- the whoosh was added for the regular production episodes, <BR>
but is missing from the opening credits of that one episode. (Shatner's<BR>
narration "Space... the final frontier..." is also missing from that <BR>
episode's opening credits.)<BR>
<BR>
(Before anyone responds: yes, I know "Where No Man..." was the *second*<BR>
pilot. The first pilot, "The Cage", was itself not aired as a regular<BR>
series episode, but was edited into a two-parter "The Menagerie". The<BR>
second pilot aired as the third broadcast episode of the series.)<BR>
<BR>
>Battlestar Galactica fighters banked and rolled as if they were in<BR>
>atmosphere.  Battlestar Galactica is about contemporaneous with Star<BR>
>Wars; I'm not sure which came first.  <BR>
<BR>
Star Wars. When Battlestar Galactica came out, it was widely regarded<BR>
as nothing more than a Star Wars ripoff.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
     Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada <BR>
cos90@powersurfr.com  http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn<BR>
        "There is no longer any normal to be"<BR>
                                 -- Gary Numan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 07:00:25 -0800<BR>
From: "Bruce Macintosh" <bruce.macintosh@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Deadfall Ordnance and Falling Rocks<BR>
<BR>
Eric T. Holmes <eholmes@lanl.gov> wrote:<BR>
> Okay, I'm confused....I tried to understand this stuff some time ago and<BR>
> still haven't gotten it straight.<BR>
><BR>
> So, where can I go to get the correct formulas for calculating what damage<BR>
> a falling rock will do from space and a piece of "streamlined" deadfall<BR>
> ordnance.<BR>
><BR>
> I already know what damage a Minuteman RV , a Davy Crocket missile and a<BR>
> 280mm shell in terms of nuclear destruction.  I just want to get to the<BR>
> equivalents or the formulae.  To be honest, every time I have visited the<BR>
> Traveller FAQs, I can never seen to get the answer I want.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Jason wrote:<BR>
>I can't tell you how to calculate the damage, but I can tell<BR>
>you how to calculate the kinetic energy.  Perhaps you can<BR>
>calculate from that.<BR>
<BR>
>E = m / 2 * v ^ 2<BR>
<BR>
Note that for that to do you any good, you need to know the velocity the<BR>
rock arrives with.<BR>
<BR>
To first order, it arrives with roughly orbital velocity: 10 km/s. Punching<BR>
through<BR>
the atmosphere might cost ~1 km/s for a "non-streamlined" rock. The launching<BR>
ship could easily add 18 km/s by using its drive (5 minutes at 6 G) to adjust<BR>
trajectory before launch.<BR>
<BR>
Then, to compare to nuclear weapons, recall that 1 kg of TNT is about<BR>
4x10^6 joules of energy. (note: I may be misremembering the exact number<BR>
and hope that someone will correct me if I am.)<BR>
<BR>
Bruce<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 09:58:31 -0500<BR>
From: "Swordy \(Colin Michael\)" <swordworlder@clinic.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Amazon.com (was Re: GT Nobles)<BR>
<BR>
Hey, how'd you do that?  Aha!  You've given yourself away as a telepath and<BR>
a Zho sympathizer!  Take him away, boys.<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: <GypsyComet@aol.com><BR>
> >that reminds me, what's the URL for Amazon.com?<BR>
><BR>
>  Just as a wild guess, maybe www.amazon.com?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 05:57:45<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Fort Livingroom!!<BR>
<BR>
At , you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>>How does the Imperium treat its burned out soldiers? Its retired soldiers? <BR>
<BR>
>It seems they receive a Gun, a Blade, perhaps a Mid Psg and a lump sum of <BR>
>Imperial Credits and go on to become Player Characters...<BR>
<BR>
A side bar in GF addresses this issue.  The Blade reward has become a<BR>
"parting gift" from the last unit.  The Gun reward is considered to be a<BR>
trophy or weapon that was lost.<BR>
<BR>
Middle passages are travel vouchers intended to get the former service<BR>
member back home.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 06:02:40<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Are Imperial Marines "Jarheads"? (was: Re: OT/Flamebait: Starship  Troopers revisited)<BR>
<BR>
At 09:06 PM 12/7/1999 -0600, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>So, Doug (the SME on this by reason of contract to write GT:GF):<BR>
><BR>
>Do people in M:1120 refer to Imperial Marines as "jarheads"?<BR>
<BR>
I hadn't considered that..  ""Cans" or "Poddies" (for the drop capsules)<BR>
might work.<BR>
<BR>
>If so, do Imperial Army NCOs admonish their subordinates that "Marines<BR>
>aren't 'jarheads'; you can _put_ things in jars"?<BR>
<BR>
Imperial Army NCOs avoid mentioning the Marines.  They find the whole<BR>
subject distasteful.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
"Some days, you just can't get rid  of a bomb!"<BR>
                    -Adam West, as Batman <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 07:03:15<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re:  Changing Stereotypes<BR>
<BR>
At 01:01 AM 12/9/1999 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Battlestar Galactica fighters banked and rolled as if they were in<BR>
>atmosphere.  Battlestar Galactica is about contemporaneous with Star<BR>
>Wars; I'm not sure which came first.  <BR>
<BR>
Star Wars by a year.  In fact, Battlestar Galactica used a piece of stock<BR>
footage from Star Wars!  When ever anybody launched a missile from a large<BR>
ship, they used a piece of film showing the rear end of a four-engined<BR>
craft leaving a tube.  It's the escape pod C-3PO and R2-D2 use at the<BR>
beginning of SW:ANH.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
If someone is arrested for jaywalking or littering just<BR>
after midnight next New Year's Eve, for at least a minute<BR>
or two he will have committed the crime of the century. <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 06:14:08<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GT Nobles<BR>
<BR>
At 07:35 PM 12/7/1999 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Hey, Loren, will ther be a "G:T Scumbags" supplement?<BR>
>I can guarantee this list will help you out lots with<BR>
>that! Thye can just pull out all their old PCs...<BR>
<BR>
It's already out.  Called "Far Trader"...<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 06:59:39<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: OT/Flamebait: Starship Troopers revisited<BR>
<BR>
At 12:21 AM 12/8/1999 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>All I know is that our (Cornell University) paintball team routinely beats <BR>
>out all the academies....  West Point typically comes in about 4th <BR>
>nationally, the others are further behind...<BR>
<BR>
The USMA at West Point doen't recruit football players.  It recruits future<BR>
Army officers.<BR>
<BR>
I have just spent an extremely frustrating *hour* trying to track down a<BR>
quote from a Gerneral during the breakout that is enscribed near Army's<BR>
stadium.  Since the army servers don't want to speak with me, I'll do my best:<BR>
<BR>
"I need an officer for a difficult, dangerous mission.  Get me a West Point<BR>
Football player."<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1461<BR>
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